Canon Discussion: The Greek Interpreter
Jul. 5th, 2015 08:46 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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sherlock60This week we’re having a look at The Greek Interpreter. I’ve typed up a few thoughts to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!
During my long and intimate acquaintance with Mr. Sherlock Holmes I had never heard him refer to his relations, and hardly ever to his own early life. Playing the Game, Watson also seems to be one for keeping his cards close to his chest. This story presumably takes place before SIGN (Watson appears to be unmarried and living at Baker Street), and in SIGN we know that Holmes has no idea Watson had a brother. So here Holmes tells Watson about Mycroft, but Watson still keeps the existence of his own brother to himself. (H. Watson is presumably alive during GREE because he’s only recently died at the beginning of SIGN.)
I had come to believe that he was an orphan… Any thoughts on Holmes’ parents?
“My ancestors were country squires, who appear to have led much the same life as is natural to their class.” “Ancestors” and “their class”—that suggests to me that the Holmeses were country squires a few generations ago. Any thoughts on what led to the family’s changed circumstances?
"But how do you know that it is hereditary?" "Because my brother Mycroft possesses it in a larger degree than I do." I am resistant to the idea that Holmes and Mycroft have more siblings, I have to admit. I want it to be just the two of them. But I think there’s some evidence here to back that up. Watson and Holmes are discussing heredity, and Holmes is a scientist. I think he would have mentioned more siblings if he had them—he wouldn’t be selective about his data.
"Is he your junior?" "Seven years my senior." But that is a large age gap between the brothers, and they were born at a time of high infant mortality. Could there have been children in between that didn’t survive?
“There are many men in London, you know, who, some from shyness, some from misanthropy, have no wish for the company of their fellows. Yet they are not averse to comfortable chairs and the latest periodicals.” The Diogenes Club doesn’t quite make sense to me. Unsociable men getting together to be unsociable together? Why not just buy a comfortable chair and the latest periodicals and stay at home? But I suppose it’s possible some of the members are married, despite the “shyness” and “misanthropy”, and want to get away from their families. Or perhaps they just want to hide from their landladies.
“My brother was one of the founders, and I have myself found it a very soothing atmosphere." Does this suggest Holmes is a member himself? Surely if he wasn’t and was only allowed in the Stranger’s Room, he wouldn’t have much experience of the “soothing atmosphere”. And he is able to go and fetch his brother himself—he doesn’t have to ask an employee to do it.
"I said that he was my superior in observation and deduction.” But on the whole is Mycroft truly more intelligent than Holmes? He advertises for information about Paul and Sophy Kratides in all the daily papers, and so puts Melas in danger. And when Mycroft receives a letter telling him where Paul Kratides is imprisoned, he thinks they should go and find out more information from the letter writer rather than going straight to the address to rescue Kratides.
‘Yours faithfully, J. Davenport.' Who exactly is Davenport? One of the friends who contacted Paul Kratides but otherwise abandoned Sophy to her fate?
...the two villains with the girl had fled away… Why do the men take Sophy with them? I presume Latimer had no other way of getting his hands on her property, and I can’t believe he had any interest in her beyond that.
Months afterwards a curious newspaper cutting reached us from Buda-Pesth. As the New Annotated says: who sends the cutting to Holmes and Watson?
...if one could find the Grecian girl, one might learn how the wrongs of herself and her brother came to be avenged. Any thoughts on what exactly happened? Was Sophy the killer? And what happened to her afterwards?
Next Sunday, 12th July, we’ll be having a look at The Naval Treaty. Hope you can join us then.
During my long and intimate acquaintance with Mr. Sherlock Holmes I had never heard him refer to his relations, and hardly ever to his own early life. Playing the Game, Watson also seems to be one for keeping his cards close to his chest. This story presumably takes place before SIGN (Watson appears to be unmarried and living at Baker Street), and in SIGN we know that Holmes has no idea Watson had a brother. So here Holmes tells Watson about Mycroft, but Watson still keeps the existence of his own brother to himself. (H. Watson is presumably alive during GREE because he’s only recently died at the beginning of SIGN.)
I had come to believe that he was an orphan… Any thoughts on Holmes’ parents?
“My ancestors were country squires, who appear to have led much the same life as is natural to their class.” “Ancestors” and “their class”—that suggests to me that the Holmeses were country squires a few generations ago. Any thoughts on what led to the family’s changed circumstances?
"But how do you know that it is hereditary?" "Because my brother Mycroft possesses it in a larger degree than I do." I am resistant to the idea that Holmes and Mycroft have more siblings, I have to admit. I want it to be just the two of them. But I think there’s some evidence here to back that up. Watson and Holmes are discussing heredity, and Holmes is a scientist. I think he would have mentioned more siblings if he had them—he wouldn’t be selective about his data.
"Is he your junior?" "Seven years my senior." But that is a large age gap between the brothers, and they were born at a time of high infant mortality. Could there have been children in between that didn’t survive?
“There are many men in London, you know, who, some from shyness, some from misanthropy, have no wish for the company of their fellows. Yet they are not averse to comfortable chairs and the latest periodicals.” The Diogenes Club doesn’t quite make sense to me. Unsociable men getting together to be unsociable together? Why not just buy a comfortable chair and the latest periodicals and stay at home? But I suppose it’s possible some of the members are married, despite the “shyness” and “misanthropy”, and want to get away from their families. Or perhaps they just want to hide from their landladies.
“My brother was one of the founders, and I have myself found it a very soothing atmosphere." Does this suggest Holmes is a member himself? Surely if he wasn’t and was only allowed in the Stranger’s Room, he wouldn’t have much experience of the “soothing atmosphere”. And he is able to go and fetch his brother himself—he doesn’t have to ask an employee to do it.
"I said that he was my superior in observation and deduction.” But on the whole is Mycroft truly more intelligent than Holmes? He advertises for information about Paul and Sophy Kratides in all the daily papers, and so puts Melas in danger. And when Mycroft receives a letter telling him where Paul Kratides is imprisoned, he thinks they should go and find out more information from the letter writer rather than going straight to the address to rescue Kratides.
‘Yours faithfully, J. Davenport.' Who exactly is Davenport? One of the friends who contacted Paul Kratides but otherwise abandoned Sophy to her fate?
...the two villains with the girl had fled away… Why do the men take Sophy with them? I presume Latimer had no other way of getting his hands on her property, and I can’t believe he had any interest in her beyond that.
Months afterwards a curious newspaper cutting reached us from Buda-Pesth. As the New Annotated says: who sends the cutting to Holmes and Watson?
...if one could find the Grecian girl, one might learn how the wrongs of herself and her brother came to be avenged. Any thoughts on what exactly happened? Was Sophy the killer? And what happened to her afterwards?
Next Sunday, 12th July, we’ll be having a look at The Naval Treaty. Hope you can join us then.
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no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 10:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 10:29 am (UTC)Might the villains have had more success playing one sibling off against the other...rather than hiding Paul from Sophy?
no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 12:21 pm (UTC)I can understand the delights of the Diogenes Club - having sat in a room with seven others, all of us on our phones in our own worlds.
And this is my view on the ending: Revenge (http://archiveofourown.org/works/3654072)
no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 01:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 01:59 pm (UTC)Watson does write: "...had endeavoured by cruelty and starvation to make him sign away his own and his sister's property." So I don't think it was necessary to marry Sophy to complete the deal. And I can't believe Latimer cared about her at all - he surely wouldn't have been particularly bothered about hurting her.
no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 02:10 pm (UTC)It's rather poignant - the thought of those lost children in between...
And yes, I suppose some of the members of the Diogenes might still enjoy the companionship of having people around, without any of the stress of being expected to interact with them ^_^
no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 02:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 03:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 05:27 pm (UTC)When I read it, I thought the term 'ancestors' a mild boast to the length of time for which the Holmes family had held land, probably at the same place. Though I agree their father, at latest, would (again probably) be a younger son.
Despite club fees, I should think the club could afford better service, a better cook, and a wider range of magazines than most members could individually. I'm sure they wouldn't like being congraulated on running their club on socialist principles, but...
I always assumed Latimer had one interest in Sophy besides her property, though a subordinate one.
no subject
Date: 2015-07-05 06:06 pm (UTC)And I think you're quite right that the club would be a far more comfortable environment than just staying at home ^_^
And yes, maybe Latimer did find Sophy physically attractive, if nothing else. After all, he took her with him when he fled, when the sensible thing to do would have been to kill her with her brother.
no subject
Date: 2015-07-06 12:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-06 06:23 pm (UTC)