Canon Discussion: The Red Circle
Nov. 29th, 2015 08:01 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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sherlock60This week we’re having a look at The Red Circle. I’ve typed up a few thoughts and questions to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!
"You arranged an affair for a lodger of mine last year," she said — "Mr. Fairdale Hobbs." Any thoughts on this case?
Holmes leaned forward and laid his long, thin fingers upon the woman's shoulder. He had an almost hypnotic power of soothing when he wished. Holmes isn’t sociable, yet he seems remarkably good with people—both men and women—when he sets his mind to it. Any thoughts? Do these skills come naturally to him? Or how did he learn them?
“Here are the Daily Gazette extracts of the last fortnight. 'Lady with a black boa at Prince's Skating Club' — that we may pass. 'Surely Jimmy will not break his mother's heart' — that appears to be irrelevant. 'If the lady who fainted in the Brixton bus' — she does not interest me. 'Every day my heart longs —'” Any ideas about the stories behind these messages? Could the “boa” have been an actual boa constrictor, rather than a feather boa? I don’t think there’s anything to say that this story takes place post-hiatus. Could “Jimmy” perhaps be James Moriarty..?
If I find chance signal message remember code agreed—One A, two B, and so on. I think it was the New Annotated Sherlock Holmes that mentioned this: the Italian alphabet has 21 letters—j, k, w, x, y only being used in foreign words. When Holmes and Watson first try to translate Lucca’s message, they have no idea he is sending it in Italian, and they use the full 26 letters (“Twenty… That should mean T.”) So Lucca is sending a message in Italian but using all the 26 letters used in English. It’s curious… Could this be Watson making something up—skating over what actually happened?
“The man, who has some work which he must do, desires to leave the woman in absolute safety while he does it.” Was the plan really a good idea on Lucca’s part? He seems to have left his wife in danger—their enemies think that Lucca himself is staying at the lodgings.
“What do you suggest, Mr. Holmes?" "That we go up at once and see for ourselves." Does Holmes believe that the man that Mrs. Warren saw (Lucca) is indeed Gorgiano? I would have thought that as he’d heard of Gorgiano, he’d know that Lucca couldn’t be the same man. (“Now, Mrs. Warren, you say that the man was of middle size...” “His name was Gorgiano, and he had come also from Posilippo. He was a huge man…”) It just seems odd that Holmes doesn’t make the situation clear to Gregson and Leverton and prepare them for all possibilities. They might be going up to find Lucca as Gorgiano’s hostage or Lucca and Gorgiano working together ready to attack—at this point Holmes doesn’t know what the relationship is between Lucca and Gorgiano. Gregson and Leverton seem to assume that only Gorgiano will be up there, which isn’t necessarily the case. (Holmes doesn’t ask if “a fellow about thirty, black-bearded, dark, of middle size” has left until after they find Gorgiano’s body.)
She spoke in rapid and fluent but very unconventional English… Again, it’s the New Annotated that brought this up. Signora Lucca’s English skills are somewhat confusing. She can speak English, and read it well (her husband seems confident she’ll understand “patience and prudence”) but is so unfamiliar with the everyday word “match” that she has to look it up in the dictionary and doesn’t know the plural.
"If what she says is corroborated, I do not think she or her husband has much to fear…” What do you think does become of the Luccas? Last time we discussed REDC,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
laurose8 suggested that the Luccas had actually lured Gorgiano to his death, and Watson had chosen to cover up that fact in his story. Any thoughts on that?
Next Sunday, 6th December, we’ll be having a look at The Disappearance of Lady Frances Carfax. Hope you can join us then.
"You arranged an affair for a lodger of mine last year," she said — "Mr. Fairdale Hobbs." Any thoughts on this case?
Holmes leaned forward and laid his long, thin fingers upon the woman's shoulder. He had an almost hypnotic power of soothing when he wished. Holmes isn’t sociable, yet he seems remarkably good with people—both men and women—when he sets his mind to it. Any thoughts? Do these skills come naturally to him? Or how did he learn them?
“Here are the Daily Gazette extracts of the last fortnight. 'Lady with a black boa at Prince's Skating Club' — that we may pass. 'Surely Jimmy will not break his mother's heart' — that appears to be irrelevant. 'If the lady who fainted in the Brixton bus' — she does not interest me. 'Every day my heart longs —'” Any ideas about the stories behind these messages? Could the “boa” have been an actual boa constrictor, rather than a feather boa? I don’t think there’s anything to say that this story takes place post-hiatus. Could “Jimmy” perhaps be James Moriarty..?
If I find chance signal message remember code agreed—One A, two B, and so on. I think it was the New Annotated Sherlock Holmes that mentioned this: the Italian alphabet has 21 letters—j, k, w, x, y only being used in foreign words. When Holmes and Watson first try to translate Lucca’s message, they have no idea he is sending it in Italian, and they use the full 26 letters (“Twenty… That should mean T.”) So Lucca is sending a message in Italian but using all the 26 letters used in English. It’s curious… Could this be Watson making something up—skating over what actually happened?
“The man, who has some work which he must do, desires to leave the woman in absolute safety while he does it.” Was the plan really a good idea on Lucca’s part? He seems to have left his wife in danger—their enemies think that Lucca himself is staying at the lodgings.
“What do you suggest, Mr. Holmes?" "That we go up at once and see for ourselves." Does Holmes believe that the man that Mrs. Warren saw (Lucca) is indeed Gorgiano? I would have thought that as he’d heard of Gorgiano, he’d know that Lucca couldn’t be the same man. (“Now, Mrs. Warren, you say that the man was of middle size...” “His name was Gorgiano, and he had come also from Posilippo. He was a huge man…”) It just seems odd that Holmes doesn’t make the situation clear to Gregson and Leverton and prepare them for all possibilities. They might be going up to find Lucca as Gorgiano’s hostage or Lucca and Gorgiano working together ready to attack—at this point Holmes doesn’t know what the relationship is between Lucca and Gorgiano. Gregson and Leverton seem to assume that only Gorgiano will be up there, which isn’t necessarily the case. (Holmes doesn’t ask if “a fellow about thirty, black-bearded, dark, of middle size” has left until after they find Gorgiano’s body.)
She spoke in rapid and fluent but very unconventional English… Again, it’s the New Annotated that brought this up. Signora Lucca’s English skills are somewhat confusing. She can speak English, and read it well (her husband seems confident she’ll understand “patience and prudence”) but is so unfamiliar with the everyday word “match” that she has to look it up in the dictionary and doesn’t know the plural.
"If what she says is corroborated, I do not think she or her husband has much to fear…” What do you think does become of the Luccas? Last time we discussed REDC,
laurose8 suggested that the Luccas had actually lured Gorgiano to his death, and Watson had chosen to cover up that fact in his story. Any thoughts on that? Next Sunday, 6th December, we’ll be having a look at The Disappearance of Lady Frances Carfax. Hope you can join us then.
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Date: 2015-11-29 10:41 am (UTC)Signora Lucca's English is strange. And if she wasn't sure of the plural of match presumably she would have written MATCHS, which would be taken as an uneducated person.
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Date: 2015-11-29 01:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-29 05:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-29 07:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-29 07:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-29 07:41 pm (UTC)That's a good point that Lucca's enemies might not have been able to identify Signora Lucca - she had only been introduced to Gorgiano himself. But Gorgiano would probably have described her to his henchmen, and I assume in context (they thought Lucca was staying at the Warrens) they would know who she was. After all, she was the beautiful daughter of a wealthy man - I'm not sure she could immediately pass as a working class girl who'd had a hard life.
And if she wasn't sure of the plural of match presumably she would have written MATCHS, which would be taken as an uneducated person.
Yes - the fact she doesn't attempt to pluralise "match" paradoxically suggests that she knows it has an irregular plural.