Canon Discussion: The Creeping Man
Jan. 24th, 2016 08:01 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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sherlock60This week we’re having a look at The Creeping Man. I’ve typed up a few thoughts and questions to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!
...if only to dispel once for all the ugly rumours which some twenty years ago agitated the university and were echoed in the learned societies of London. Here Watson relates the true story that Presbury had taken a youth serum and was turning into a monkey. Any thoughts on what the rumours were? They must have been pretty terrible if turning into a monkey is less embarrassing. Last time we discussed CREE,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
laurose8 suggested perhaps there had been rumours Presbury had taken to drink, or had succumbed to madness. And if it was implied that this madness was hereditary, then Presbury’s daughter would probably want the truth to come out.
It was one Sunday evening early in September of the year 1903 that I received one of Holmes's laconic messages… If what Holmes tells us in BLAN is true (I find from my notebook that it was in January, 1903, just after the conclusion of the Boer War, that I had my visit from Mr. James M. Dodd…), then at this point Watson has “deserted [Holmes] for a wife.” In 3GAR, which is set “the latter end of June, 1902,” they are still together in Baker Street; in ILLU, which begins “September 3, 1902,” Watson is abruptly living in his “own rooms in Queen Anne Street”. But in CREE and in ILLU, there is absolutely no indication of a current or possible Mrs. Watson. Any thoughts?
The relations between us in those latter days were peculiar. There’s a melancholic feel to what Watson says at the start of the story but their friendship seems exactly the same to me. It certainly doesn't appear any more "peculiar" than it was at the beginning.
With a wave of his hand he indicated my old armchair, but otherwise for half an hour he gave no sign that he was aware of my presence. What is Watson doing for this half an hour? Does he have an emergency paperback on him?
“...you've heard of Presbury, of course, the famous Camford physiologist?” At the start of his narrative, Watson says: Mr. Sherlock Holmes was always of opinion that I should publish the singular facts connected with Professor Presbury, if only to dispel once for all the ugly rumours which some twenty years ago agitated the university and were echoed in the learned societies of London. And yet here we have a fake place name so readers can’t easily track down which university. Why this odd mixture of wanting to be open and ‘dispel rumours’, and being vague about the details of where Presbury taught?
“He is sixty-one years of age, but he became engaged to the daughter of Professor Morphy… The daughter, however, had other views, and there were already several candidates for her hand, who, if they were less eligible from a worldly point of view, were at least more of an age. The girl seemed to like the professor in spite of his eccentricities. It was only age which stood in the way.” This doesn’t quite make sense, aslaurose8 also pointed out last time. Is Presbury already engaged or not? And if he’d already got engaged then why does he need to take a drug to make him seem younger and more appealing? Or did he first take the drug before getting engaged and now feels he can’t stop? Holmes does say: It was not, as I understand, the reasoned courting of an elderly man but rather the passionate frenzy of youth…”
“Oh, Jack, I have been so dreadfully frightened! It is awful to be there alone." Why does Miss Presbury call Trevor Bennett ‘Jack’? Or is this yet another double surname?
...involved frantic planning and hurrying on my part, as my practice was by this time not inconsiderable. So here it’s clearly stated that Watson has gone back to being a full-time doctor. Why? Has he indeed got married again—despite the complete lack of references to a wife?
"Mercer is since your time," said Holmes. "He is my general utility man who looks up routine business.” Any thoughts on Mercer?
“...that untimely love affair which gave our impetuous professor the idea that he could only gain his wish by turning himself into a younger man.” Does Presbury go on to marry Alice Morphy? I’m guessing no, for several reasons.
“Consider, Watson, that the material, the sensual, the worldly would all prolong their worthless lives. The spiritual would not avoid the call to something higher.” Intriguing. This does rather seem to imply that Holmes believes in some kind of afterlife.
Next Sunday, 31st January, we’ll be having a look at The Sussex Vampire. Hope you can join us then.
...if only to dispel once for all the ugly rumours which some twenty years ago agitated the university and were echoed in the learned societies of London. Here Watson relates the true story that Presbury had taken a youth serum and was turning into a monkey. Any thoughts on what the rumours were? They must have been pretty terrible if turning into a monkey is less embarrassing. Last time we discussed CREE,
laurose8 suggested perhaps there had been rumours Presbury had taken to drink, or had succumbed to madness. And if it was implied that this madness was hereditary, then Presbury’s daughter would probably want the truth to come out.It was one Sunday evening early in September of the year 1903 that I received one of Holmes's laconic messages… If what Holmes tells us in BLAN is true (I find from my notebook that it was in January, 1903, just after the conclusion of the Boer War, that I had my visit from Mr. James M. Dodd…), then at this point Watson has “deserted [Holmes] for a wife.” In 3GAR, which is set “the latter end of June, 1902,” they are still together in Baker Street; in ILLU, which begins “September 3, 1902,” Watson is abruptly living in his “own rooms in Queen Anne Street”. But in CREE and in ILLU, there is absolutely no indication of a current or possible Mrs. Watson. Any thoughts?
The relations between us in those latter days were peculiar. There’s a melancholic feel to what Watson says at the start of the story but their friendship seems exactly the same to me. It certainly doesn't appear any more "peculiar" than it was at the beginning.
With a wave of his hand he indicated my old armchair, but otherwise for half an hour he gave no sign that he was aware of my presence. What is Watson doing for this half an hour? Does he have an emergency paperback on him?
“...you've heard of Presbury, of course, the famous Camford physiologist?” At the start of his narrative, Watson says: Mr. Sherlock Holmes was always of opinion that I should publish the singular facts connected with Professor Presbury, if only to dispel once for all the ugly rumours which some twenty years ago agitated the university and were echoed in the learned societies of London. And yet here we have a fake place name so readers can’t easily track down which university. Why this odd mixture of wanting to be open and ‘dispel rumours’, and being vague about the details of where Presbury taught?
“He is sixty-one years of age, but he became engaged to the daughter of Professor Morphy… The daughter, however, had other views, and there were already several candidates for her hand, who, if they were less eligible from a worldly point of view, were at least more of an age. The girl seemed to like the professor in spite of his eccentricities. It was only age which stood in the way.” This doesn’t quite make sense, as
laurose8 also pointed out last time. Is Presbury already engaged or not? And if he’d already got engaged then why does he need to take a drug to make him seem younger and more appealing? Or did he first take the drug before getting engaged and now feels he can’t stop? Holmes does say: It was not, as I understand, the reasoned courting of an elderly man but rather the passionate frenzy of youth…”“Oh, Jack, I have been so dreadfully frightened! It is awful to be there alone." Why does Miss Presbury call Trevor Bennett ‘Jack’? Or is this yet another double surname?
...involved frantic planning and hurrying on my part, as my practice was by this time not inconsiderable. So here it’s clearly stated that Watson has gone back to being a full-time doctor. Why? Has he indeed got married again—despite the complete lack of references to a wife?
"Mercer is since your time," said Holmes. "He is my general utility man who looks up routine business.” Any thoughts on Mercer?
“...that untimely love affair which gave our impetuous professor the idea that he could only gain his wish by turning himself into a younger man.” Does Presbury go on to marry Alice Morphy? I’m guessing no, for several reasons.
“Consider, Watson, that the material, the sensual, the worldly would all prolong their worthless lives. The spiritual would not avoid the call to something higher.” Intriguing. This does rather seem to imply that Holmes believes in some kind of afterlife.
Next Sunday, 31st January, we’ll be having a look at The Sussex Vampire. Hope you can join us then.
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no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 01:08 pm (UTC)Why is it better to now know what really happened? In Victorian England, people would just not understand the workings of science, but by the highly enlightened period of 1923, the public could hear about simian transformations in a much more critically distanced way. Especially once evolution was accepted.
Plus, the rumors had reached the stage where the professor had been transforming into a bat and ravishing young innocent women (or possibly cows) and thus being injected with monkey serum was, at the very least, exotic and science-y rather than simply weird and gross and well... cows?
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 02:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 02:57 pm (UTC)On another flora and fauna note, I watched the Granada version of the story this week and Alice at one point tells the daughter to tell the father not to send her orchids anymore because they're 'impure somehow.' No coochie-looking flowers for her!
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 04:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 04:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 04:28 pm (UTC)But in a semi-serious vein - it does make sense that in 20 years science would have moved on a bit and people would be more understanding. And that over the course of 20 years the story would have been blown up to grotesque proportions - so much so that the truth would no longer seem shocking ^^
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 04:44 pm (UTC)As an addendum. Presbury seems to have been acting a bit strange before he even met Lowenstein, so maybe his monkeying around was merely self suggestion about how this strangeness should be expressed. (Which means there might be hereditary madness in the case after all.)
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 04:48 pm (UTC)Must admit I haven't seen the Granada episode in years. It looks like the Granada producers were overtly going for the sexual interpretation then I suppose? The innocent young woman contrasted with the lustful man.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 05:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 05:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 05:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 07:17 pm (UTC)Frantic packing and hurrying is clearly a euphamism for something Watson and Lestrade needed to do. (without monkey glands too!)
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 07:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 07:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 07:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 07:43 pm (UTC)They were 'practising'.
no subject
Date: 2016-01-24 08:22 pm (UTC)