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sherlock60This week, the canon story we’re looking at is Charles Augustus Milverton and the chosen topic is Courtship.
A few facts:
💌💘 Marriage was encouraged only within one’s class. To aspire higher, one was considered an upstart. To marry someone of lower social standing was considered marrying beneath oneself. [AngelPig]
💌💘 Servants’ clothes, leisure time, and courtship possibilities were restricted, making marriage and upward mobility more difficult. Overall members of the working classes tended to marry earlier than those of the professional classes… However, servants tended to marry later or not at all…
...Of all the groups in Victorian London’s female population, it was servants who were most at risk of unwed motherhood, largely because there were so many obstacles to their nuptiality… [Gillis]
The tremendous cost of premarital pregnancy for domestic servants, who were typically dismissed for the offense, resulted in the high numbers of them among mothers abandoning children at the London Foundling Hospital and among women taken in by rescue organizations for fallen women. [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 ...model letters from servant girls may have been included in love letter-writing manuals in part to convince their employers… to sympathize with their servants. More freedom in courtship could, perhaps, prevent clandestine relationships… These model letters reveal that for the servant class it was often more difficult to obtain independence from employers than it was from parents. Also …these manuals turned a blind eye towards the very real possibility that servants could also become victims of members of the households for which they worked… [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 Courtship among the lower middle and upper working classes had changed by the late nineteenth century due to the revolutions in agriculture and industry… ...the lower middle and upper working classes had a distinct set of unwritten courtship rituals, including patterns of walking out, gift-giving, and organizing weddings. These courtships were a mixture of middle- and working-class mores, since the couples aspired to middle-class domesticity without the economic resources to secure it.
According to Davidoff and Hall, lower middle-class couples in Birmingham early in the century found their spouses through “kinship, friendship and religious communities” as well as businesses. Francoise Barret-Ducrocq’s study of working class courtship also revealed a wide variety of ways for couples to meet in the Victorian period, including kin ties and work. Couples in breach-of-promise suits in the last half of the century continued to find each other through a mix of business and family influences. Relatively few met at social events such as balls, picnics, or church-related activities (14 percent). Far more knew each other through relatives, mutual friends, or from being neighbors (42 percent). A further 6 percent met because of a landlord-tenant relationship. The second largest group (27 percent) knew each other through work, as when the defendant employed the plaintiff or was her or his customer. Finally, a large number of couples (11 percent) fit into none of these categories. Strangers to each other, these people met in the street, on travels, or through matchmakers. [Ginger Suzanne Frost]
💌💘 Premarital intercourse was an accepted part of courtship in the lower middle and 'respectable' working classes, but only in long-term relationships and infrequently even then. In most of the cases the woman had sex only with her fiancé or after an extended period of courtship. Although not acknowledged by most people outside of the working class, there was a long-held belief that sex with a fiancé was acceptable, since the couple were to be married anyway. The primary disgrace came if the woman became pregnant and the couple did not marry… Premarital intercourse was infrequent because the couple were rarely able to use their own rooms. Because so much of the courtship happened in homes of the couple's parents, privacy was at a premium. Of course, in those cases in which the couple lodged together (for example, when the plaintiff was the defendant's housekeeper, landlady, or servant), opportunities for intimacy were easier to find. [Ginger S. Frost]
💌💘 For the upper classes… the balls, parties, charity functions and events during London Season were opportunities for men and women to meet. Outside the season were the rounds of house parties, hunts, shoots, teas, calling on neighbours and family members, bazaars and fetes. With regards to the middle and working classes there were the public spaces such as parks, churches, the sea side, shops, markets, theatres, concerts and music halls (later the cinema) as well as events such as family gatherings, fetes, bazaars, dances and street parties where both genders could mix and socialise. By the late 19th century, the rise of sports such as tennis, golf and roller skating became another popular way for men and women to get to know each other. Roller skating and especially cycling did play some part in emancipating women and facilitated ways for young men and women to meet. [woostersauce2014]
💌💘 A lady who maintained the rigid strictures of Victorian society wasn’t allowed to accept lavish or expensive gifts at the hands of a gentleman not related or engaged to her. According to one etiquette expert of the 1870s – 1890s, Professor Thomas E. Hill, there were four items she could accept from a gentleman while still maintaining propriety: books, confectionery, flowers, sheet music.
Usually, gentlemen were not supposed to give gifts to ladies unless that lady was their fiancée or a relative. Even then, as per Mrs. Houghton: “A costly gift from a gentleman to a young lady would be indelicate, as having the appearance of a bribe upon her affections.” Instead, etiquette demanded that a gentleman gifts flowers, fruit, or candy. These gifts were perishable and therefore left no obligation upon the lady receiving them. [Victorian-Era.org]
💌💘 [Upper class] Society viewed courtship as a career move for men and a woman’s way of securing her position in life and security for her children… Though this may seem restrictive, it was actually an improvement as the Victorian era saw less arranged marriages and couples selected their own partners. This does not indicate that all was left to romantic chance meetings. Families played a pivotal role by introducing young couples whom they thought would be well suited for one another. Though parents no longer arranged marriages, they still had an impact in arranging courtships. [Datehookup]
💌💘 Balls and dances were the means by which a young girl was introduced into Society. She was expected to stay close to her chaperone until someone asked her to dance and was quickly returned to the chaperone after each dance. To dance more than three times with the same partner was considered forward and improper. [Victoria’s Past]
💌💘 [Upper class] men and women… had to be properly introduced first. The courtship process took place in stages, beginning with the ball or dance and proceeding with speaking before progressing to taking a walk together. Once the couple had affirmed they wished to move forward with courtship they were said to “keep company.” While keeping company they would enjoy chaperoned dates together… [Datehookup]
💌💘 Permission for asking for the daughter’s hand in marriage had to be granted by [the] bride’s father, although the gentleman could wait until he had his bride’s consent before asking… If he could not bring himself to propose in person, he could do so in writing. A girl did not have to accept her first proposal. She could play coy. A short time was allowed to elapse before an engagement was announced… This was a precaution, lest the engagement be ended by either party… The couple could become a bit more intimate once they were engaged. They could stroll out alone, hold hands in public, and take unchaperoned rides. A hand around the waist, a chaste kiss, a pressing of the hand were allowed. They could also visit alone behind closed doors. But they had to be dutifully separated by nightfall… [AngelPig]
💌💘 The engagement was considered a contract to marry and was legally binding on both parties. However, unlike most contracts, it could not be enforced because the civil courts would not coerce marriage, but the party breaking the contract was liable to damages… Although most people in Victorian times assumed that success—a wedding—resulted from courtship almost automatically, possibly thousands of courtships per year failed, far more than made it to court in a breach-of-promise suit. [Ginger S. Frost]
💌💘 For many single ladies and gentlemen of the 19th century, placing a matrimonial advertisement in a local newspaper was considered a viable alternative to traditional courtship. It was especially popular with those who were new to an area or those who had no family or social groups through which they might otherwise obtain an introduction to a suitable partner. [Mimi Matthews]
💌💘 In the later part of the 19th century there were newspapers specifically for this purpose: The Matrimonial News (1870-1895) was probably the most popular newspaper devoted solely to marriage… Any given issue of a matrimonial paper would contain hundreds of personal advertisements. Spouse hunters could often place their profiles for free, but were expected to pay the subscription fee to receive the paper as well as a finder’s fee on marriage… Whether or not the ads were genuine or successful, of course, remains a mystery. The Examiner, at least, was skeptical: “Many of these advertisements are obviously of the kind known in American parlance as ‘Bogus’. It is, for instance, inconceivable that no fewer than three Members of Parliament should at one and the same time be standing in need of the services of the Editor of the Matrimonial News.”
What really stands out… is the importance income plays for all of the marriage advertisers… the prevailing perception that matrimonial advertising was crass and uncouth as well as dangerous inspired much of the writing about it in the press. [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 Advice from Victorian relationship experts:
"A love-letter never loses by being couched in grammatical terms, and with due regard to style and diction."
"Courtship, as it is generally conducted, is a game of 'blind man's buff', only both parties are blinded."
"Never part with him in the morning with an unkind word. He may never return alive; he may be brought home a corpse."
"Never consent to marry a bad man in the hope of reforming him."
"If there should be the slightest suspicion on either side that the love of the other is of a sordid kind, it should be tested to the utmost. A man or a woman who marries for money or beauty is like an ignorant person who buys a painting for the sake of the gilded frame."
"What is a companion? A congenial spirit, one possessed of an interior constitution of soul similar to our own, or similar age, opinions, tastes, habits, models of thought, and feeling."
"Beware of the Last Word." [Quoted by Kathryn Hughes]
Some useful resources:
Victorian era courtship rules and marriage facts On Victorian-Era.org
Victorian Courtship On Victoria's Past.
An Online Dating Guide to Courting in the Victorian Era On Datehookup.
Ginger S. Frost , Promises Broken: Courtship, Class, and Gender in Victorian England (1995) Excerpts from Chapter 1, "The Legal History of Breach of Promise," Chapter 2, "The Court of Public Theatre," Chapter 5, "Broken Engagements in Victorian England," and Chapter 6, "Premarital Sex in Victorian England". Transcribed from pages 16-17, 25-26, 38-39, 80, 82, 84, 88-92, 98-100 and 116-119.. Book published by University of Virginia Press. On Scenes of Love and Seduction, University University of Nebraska–Lincoln.
Rules of the Game: Love, courtship, marriage, sex and married life from the 19th century until 1939 By woostersauce2014, on Enough of this Tomfoolery!
Courtship Etiquette for Gentlemen By Geri Walton, on her blog.
Promises Broken: Courtship, Class, and Gender in Victorian England By Ginger Suzanne Frost. A preview of the book on Google Books.
Engagement On AngelPig.
The secret love lives of the Victorians By Kathryn Hughes, on the Guardian website.
Sex & Sexuality in the 19th Century By Jan Marsh, on the Victoria and Albert Museum website.
Living in Sin: Cohabiting as Husband and Wife in Nineteenth-Century England A review by Dr Tanya Evans, Macquarie University, Sydney, of the book by Ginger Frost.
Nineteenth Century Courtship Advice By Ben Miller, on Out of This Century.
A Collection of Victorian Flirtations By Susanna Ives, on her blog.
A Simple 100-Point Guide To Flirting Like A Victorian By Julie Gerstein, on The Frisky. Parasol, hat, glove, eye and fan flirtations.
The Fan Dance That is, the flirtatious language of the fan. On Victoria’s Past.
Dating in the Victorian Age "The Unsuitable Suitor of 1879" by Heather Palmer Regarding form letters from an (American) Victorian etiquette book for rejecting proposals. On Victoriana Magazine.
Saucy ‘Escort Cards’ Were a Way to Flirt in the Victorian Era 19th-century Americans used cheeky cards to stretch social convention and find romance. By Becky Little, on National Geographic.
The 25 Stages from Courtship to Marriage A charming set of twenty-five hand-tinted stereographs showing the various stages from courting to marriage – focused mainly on a rumbled midnight tryst on the third date and the wedding itself which takes place in a rather luxuriant tropical setting. There is no date given on the cards, but they are most likely from the late 19th century. Unfortunately the eleventh card is missing from the uploaded set… On The Public Domain Review.
Victorians Flirting… In the Personals? (These are from US newspapers.) By Kristin Holt. on her website.
Victorian Era Valentine’s Day By Kristin Holt, on her website.
The Mystery of Love, Courtship and Marriage Explained By Henry J. Wehman. Whole book available to read on the Online Archive. Also several ways to download it. Originally published in 1890 (this particular edition is possibly a 1920s or 1930s reprint) - Henry J. Wehman's Love, Courtship and Marriage offers advice and etiquette lessons to aid in winning the game of love. Topics covered include "Postage Stamp Flirtations," "How a Lady should manage her Beau to make him propose marriage," and "Courtship of a young Girl with whom you are not personally acquainted."
Alternative Courtship: Matrimonial Advertisements in the 19th Century By Mimi Matthews. on her website.
Courtship and Marriage in Victorian England By Jennifer Phegley. Four excerpts from the search ‘domestic servants’. The links marked ‘Page 61’ and ‘Page 85’ seem to be the most relevant. In addition, the ‘Page 85’ link looks at Matrimonial Newspapers. NB this is a link to the preview of the book on Google Books, so it may or may not work for you.
Jennifer Phegley - Courtship and Marriage in Victorian England - February 9, 2012 Posted by The Kansas City Public Library. Whole video: 52 min 49 sec. Talk by Jennifer Phegley begins approx. 6 min 10 sec mark. A look at the role of the press in Victorian courtship.
Please feel free to discuss this topic in the comments.
Please also feel free to comment about the canon story itself or any related aspects outside this week’s theme. For example, any reactions, thoughts, theories, fic recs, favourite adaptations of the canon story… Or any other contribution you wish to make. And if you have any suggestions for fic prompts springing from this week's story, please feel free to share those in the comments as well.
A few facts:
💌💘 Marriage was encouraged only within one’s class. To aspire higher, one was considered an upstart. To marry someone of lower social standing was considered marrying beneath oneself. [AngelPig]
💌💘 Servants’ clothes, leisure time, and courtship possibilities were restricted, making marriage and upward mobility more difficult. Overall members of the working classes tended to marry earlier than those of the professional classes… However, servants tended to marry later or not at all…
...Of all the groups in Victorian London’s female population, it was servants who were most at risk of unwed motherhood, largely because there were so many obstacles to their nuptiality… [Gillis]
The tremendous cost of premarital pregnancy for domestic servants, who were typically dismissed for the offense, resulted in the high numbers of them among mothers abandoning children at the London Foundling Hospital and among women taken in by rescue organizations for fallen women. [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 ...model letters from servant girls may have been included in love letter-writing manuals in part to convince their employers… to sympathize with their servants. More freedom in courtship could, perhaps, prevent clandestine relationships… These model letters reveal that for the servant class it was often more difficult to obtain independence from employers than it was from parents. Also …these manuals turned a blind eye towards the very real possibility that servants could also become victims of members of the households for which they worked… [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 Courtship among the lower middle and upper working classes had changed by the late nineteenth century due to the revolutions in agriculture and industry… ...the lower middle and upper working classes had a distinct set of unwritten courtship rituals, including patterns of walking out, gift-giving, and organizing weddings. These courtships were a mixture of middle- and working-class mores, since the couples aspired to middle-class domesticity without the economic resources to secure it.
According to Davidoff and Hall, lower middle-class couples in Birmingham early in the century found their spouses through “kinship, friendship and religious communities” as well as businesses. Francoise Barret-Ducrocq’s study of working class courtship also revealed a wide variety of ways for couples to meet in the Victorian period, including kin ties and work. Couples in breach-of-promise suits in the last half of the century continued to find each other through a mix of business and family influences. Relatively few met at social events such as balls, picnics, or church-related activities (14 percent). Far more knew each other through relatives, mutual friends, or from being neighbors (42 percent). A further 6 percent met because of a landlord-tenant relationship. The second largest group (27 percent) knew each other through work, as when the defendant employed the plaintiff or was her or his customer. Finally, a large number of couples (11 percent) fit into none of these categories. Strangers to each other, these people met in the street, on travels, or through matchmakers. [Ginger Suzanne Frost]
💌💘 Premarital intercourse was an accepted part of courtship in the lower middle and 'respectable' working classes, but only in long-term relationships and infrequently even then. In most of the cases the woman had sex only with her fiancé or after an extended period of courtship. Although not acknowledged by most people outside of the working class, there was a long-held belief that sex with a fiancé was acceptable, since the couple were to be married anyway. The primary disgrace came if the woman became pregnant and the couple did not marry… Premarital intercourse was infrequent because the couple were rarely able to use their own rooms. Because so much of the courtship happened in homes of the couple's parents, privacy was at a premium. Of course, in those cases in which the couple lodged together (for example, when the plaintiff was the defendant's housekeeper, landlady, or servant), opportunities for intimacy were easier to find. [Ginger S. Frost]
💌💘 For the upper classes… the balls, parties, charity functions and events during London Season were opportunities for men and women to meet. Outside the season were the rounds of house parties, hunts, shoots, teas, calling on neighbours and family members, bazaars and fetes. With regards to the middle and working classes there were the public spaces such as parks, churches, the sea side, shops, markets, theatres, concerts and music halls (later the cinema) as well as events such as family gatherings, fetes, bazaars, dances and street parties where both genders could mix and socialise. By the late 19th century, the rise of sports such as tennis, golf and roller skating became another popular way for men and women to get to know each other. Roller skating and especially cycling did play some part in emancipating women and facilitated ways for young men and women to meet. [woostersauce2014]
💌💘 A lady who maintained the rigid strictures of Victorian society wasn’t allowed to accept lavish or expensive gifts at the hands of a gentleman not related or engaged to her. According to one etiquette expert of the 1870s – 1890s, Professor Thomas E. Hill, there were four items she could accept from a gentleman while still maintaining propriety: books, confectionery, flowers, sheet music.
Usually, gentlemen were not supposed to give gifts to ladies unless that lady was their fiancée or a relative. Even then, as per Mrs. Houghton: “A costly gift from a gentleman to a young lady would be indelicate, as having the appearance of a bribe upon her affections.” Instead, etiquette demanded that a gentleman gifts flowers, fruit, or candy. These gifts were perishable and therefore left no obligation upon the lady receiving them. [Victorian-Era.org]
💌💘 [Upper class] Society viewed courtship as a career move for men and a woman’s way of securing her position in life and security for her children… Though this may seem restrictive, it was actually an improvement as the Victorian era saw less arranged marriages and couples selected their own partners. This does not indicate that all was left to romantic chance meetings. Families played a pivotal role by introducing young couples whom they thought would be well suited for one another. Though parents no longer arranged marriages, they still had an impact in arranging courtships. [Datehookup]
💌💘 Balls and dances were the means by which a young girl was introduced into Society. She was expected to stay close to her chaperone until someone asked her to dance and was quickly returned to the chaperone after each dance. To dance more than three times with the same partner was considered forward and improper. [Victoria’s Past]
💌💘 [Upper class] men and women… had to be properly introduced first. The courtship process took place in stages, beginning with the ball or dance and proceeding with speaking before progressing to taking a walk together. Once the couple had affirmed they wished to move forward with courtship they were said to “keep company.” While keeping company they would enjoy chaperoned dates together… [Datehookup]
💌💘 Permission for asking for the daughter’s hand in marriage had to be granted by [the] bride’s father, although the gentleman could wait until he had his bride’s consent before asking… If he could not bring himself to propose in person, he could do so in writing. A girl did not have to accept her first proposal. She could play coy. A short time was allowed to elapse before an engagement was announced… This was a precaution, lest the engagement be ended by either party… The couple could become a bit more intimate once they were engaged. They could stroll out alone, hold hands in public, and take unchaperoned rides. A hand around the waist, a chaste kiss, a pressing of the hand were allowed. They could also visit alone behind closed doors. But they had to be dutifully separated by nightfall… [AngelPig]
💌💘 The engagement was considered a contract to marry and was legally binding on both parties. However, unlike most contracts, it could not be enforced because the civil courts would not coerce marriage, but the party breaking the contract was liable to damages… Although most people in Victorian times assumed that success—a wedding—resulted from courtship almost automatically, possibly thousands of courtships per year failed, far more than made it to court in a breach-of-promise suit. [Ginger S. Frost]
💌💘 For many single ladies and gentlemen of the 19th century, placing a matrimonial advertisement in a local newspaper was considered a viable alternative to traditional courtship. It was especially popular with those who were new to an area or those who had no family or social groups through which they might otherwise obtain an introduction to a suitable partner. [Mimi Matthews]
💌💘 In the later part of the 19th century there were newspapers specifically for this purpose: The Matrimonial News (1870-1895) was probably the most popular newspaper devoted solely to marriage… Any given issue of a matrimonial paper would contain hundreds of personal advertisements. Spouse hunters could often place their profiles for free, but were expected to pay the subscription fee to receive the paper as well as a finder’s fee on marriage… Whether or not the ads were genuine or successful, of course, remains a mystery. The Examiner, at least, was skeptical: “Many of these advertisements are obviously of the kind known in American parlance as ‘Bogus’. It is, for instance, inconceivable that no fewer than three Members of Parliament should at one and the same time be standing in need of the services of the Editor of the Matrimonial News.”
What really stands out… is the importance income plays for all of the marriage advertisers… the prevailing perception that matrimonial advertising was crass and uncouth as well as dangerous inspired much of the writing about it in the press. [Jennifer Phegley]
💌💘 Advice from Victorian relationship experts:
"A love-letter never loses by being couched in grammatical terms, and with due regard to style and diction."
"Courtship, as it is generally conducted, is a game of 'blind man's buff', only both parties are blinded."
"Never part with him in the morning with an unkind word. He may never return alive; he may be brought home a corpse."
"Never consent to marry a bad man in the hope of reforming him."
"If there should be the slightest suspicion on either side that the love of the other is of a sordid kind, it should be tested to the utmost. A man or a woman who marries for money or beauty is like an ignorant person who buys a painting for the sake of the gilded frame."
"What is a companion? A congenial spirit, one possessed of an interior constitution of soul similar to our own, or similar age, opinions, tastes, habits, models of thought, and feeling."
"Beware of the Last Word." [Quoted by Kathryn Hughes]
Some useful resources:
Victorian era courtship rules and marriage facts On Victorian-Era.org
Victorian Courtship On Victoria's Past.
An Online Dating Guide to Courting in the Victorian Era On Datehookup.
Ginger S. Frost , Promises Broken: Courtship, Class, and Gender in Victorian England (1995) Excerpts from Chapter 1, "The Legal History of Breach of Promise," Chapter 2, "The Court of Public Theatre," Chapter 5, "Broken Engagements in Victorian England," and Chapter 6, "Premarital Sex in Victorian England". Transcribed from pages 16-17, 25-26, 38-39, 80, 82, 84, 88-92, 98-100 and 116-119.. Book published by University of Virginia Press. On Scenes of Love and Seduction, University University of Nebraska–Lincoln.
Rules of the Game: Love, courtship, marriage, sex and married life from the 19th century until 1939 By woostersauce2014, on Enough of this Tomfoolery!
Courtship Etiquette for Gentlemen By Geri Walton, on her blog.
Promises Broken: Courtship, Class, and Gender in Victorian England By Ginger Suzanne Frost. A preview of the book on Google Books.
Engagement On AngelPig.
The secret love lives of the Victorians By Kathryn Hughes, on the Guardian website.
Sex & Sexuality in the 19th Century By Jan Marsh, on the Victoria and Albert Museum website.
Living in Sin: Cohabiting as Husband and Wife in Nineteenth-Century England A review by Dr Tanya Evans, Macquarie University, Sydney, of the book by Ginger Frost.
Nineteenth Century Courtship Advice By Ben Miller, on Out of This Century.
A Collection of Victorian Flirtations By Susanna Ives, on her blog.
A Simple 100-Point Guide To Flirting Like A Victorian By Julie Gerstein, on The Frisky. Parasol, hat, glove, eye and fan flirtations.
The Fan Dance That is, the flirtatious language of the fan. On Victoria’s Past.
Dating in the Victorian Age "The Unsuitable Suitor of 1879" by Heather Palmer Regarding form letters from an (American) Victorian etiquette book for rejecting proposals. On Victoriana Magazine.
Saucy ‘Escort Cards’ Were a Way to Flirt in the Victorian Era 19th-century Americans used cheeky cards to stretch social convention and find romance. By Becky Little, on National Geographic.
The 25 Stages from Courtship to Marriage A charming set of twenty-five hand-tinted stereographs showing the various stages from courting to marriage – focused mainly on a rumbled midnight tryst on the third date and the wedding itself which takes place in a rather luxuriant tropical setting. There is no date given on the cards, but they are most likely from the late 19th century. Unfortunately the eleventh card is missing from the uploaded set… On The Public Domain Review.
Victorians Flirting… In the Personals? (These are from US newspapers.) By Kristin Holt. on her website.
Victorian Era Valentine’s Day By Kristin Holt, on her website.
The Mystery of Love, Courtship and Marriage Explained By Henry J. Wehman. Whole book available to read on the Online Archive. Also several ways to download it. Originally published in 1890 (this particular edition is possibly a 1920s or 1930s reprint) - Henry J. Wehman's Love, Courtship and Marriage offers advice and etiquette lessons to aid in winning the game of love. Topics covered include "Postage Stamp Flirtations," "How a Lady should manage her Beau to make him propose marriage," and "Courtship of a young Girl with whom you are not personally acquainted."
Alternative Courtship: Matrimonial Advertisements in the 19th Century By Mimi Matthews. on her website.
Courtship and Marriage in Victorian England By Jennifer Phegley. Four excerpts from the search ‘domestic servants’. The links marked ‘Page 61’ and ‘Page 85’ seem to be the most relevant. In addition, the ‘Page 85’ link looks at Matrimonial Newspapers. NB this is a link to the preview of the book on Google Books, so it may or may not work for you.
Jennifer Phegley - Courtship and Marriage in Victorian England - February 9, 2012 Posted by The Kansas City Public Library. Whole video: 52 min 49 sec. Talk by Jennifer Phegley begins approx. 6 min 10 sec mark. A look at the role of the press in Victorian courtship.
Please feel free to discuss this topic in the comments.
Please also feel free to comment about the canon story itself or any related aspects outside this week’s theme. For example, any reactions, thoughts, theories, fic recs, favourite adaptations of the canon story… Or any other contribution you wish to make. And if you have any suggestions for fic prompts springing from this week's story, please feel free to share those in the comments as well.
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no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 01:38 pm (UTC)I did another chapter to Bloody Balzac! No invisible lesbians this time, but CAM does have Holmes in his sights and a bit more backstory on our pistol wielding, tiara wearing lady. Rating: Gen.
http://archiveofourown.org/works/5900176/chapters/22236161
no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 03:17 pm (UTC)http://granada-brett-crumbs.tumblr.com/post/157197785966/littlenimart-an-instant-afterwards-he-had-closed
no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 05:04 pm (UTC)And before I forget, someone whose name rhymes with 'bokapi' got recced here (https://educatedinyellow.tumblr.com/post/157693675744/hi-i-was-wondering-if-you-could-recommend-some) on Tumblr...
no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 05:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 08:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-26 08:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-27 02:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-02-27 05:03 pm (UTC)"You are not coming."
"Then you are not going," said I. "I give you my word of honour -- and I never broke it in my life -- that I will take a cab straight to the police-station and give you away, unless you let me share this adventure with you."
"You can't help me."
"How do you know that? You can't tell what may happen. Anyway, my resolution is taken. Other people besides you have self-respect, and even reputations."
To me, this perfectly sums up Watson, and his relationship with Holmes, in the way I like best to see it.
no subject
Date: 2017-02-28 06:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-03-08 01:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-03-08 01:32 am (UTC)This is the first time that I noticed the conservatory in the text. A handful of adaptations use it, but I had previously presumed they were riffing from each other. (Especially since they repeat details that aren't in the story!)
no subject
Date: 2017-03-08 01:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-03-09 09:51 am (UTC)Do you have any insight?
no subject
Date: 2017-03-09 10:02 pm (UTC)Re IDEN: I don't the answer for certain but I've been doing some thinking and some Googling and this is what I've come up with.
In Victorian times, if you had a married man and a single woman who knew he was married, and the man promised to marry the woman when his wife died - if he changed his mind once he became a widower, the woman couldn't sue him for breach of promise. But if a married man passed himself off as a single man and the woman believed him to be free, then she could sue for breach of promise once she knew the truth.
This at first seems to be the situation Miss Sutherland is in. However, she and Windibank are stepdaughter and stepfather. Marriages between stepfathers and stepdaughters were forbidden in all cases - even if Miss Sutherland's mother had died and Miss Sutherland wanted to marry Windibank, it wouldn't be allowed. So I'm assuming she wouldn't be able to sue Windibank for breach of promise, even though she'd had no idea he was her stepfather, because a marriage between them would have been illegal.
If Windibank had actually married Miss Sutherland, then the police could have become involved - for the bigamous aspect at least. I suppose even attempting to contract such a marriage might have been illegal. But Windibank had a defence in that case. He could admit that 'yes, I've played a cruel trick on my stepdaughter in an attempt to keep her at home, but I never had any intention of going through with a wedding. I hadn't arranged a wedding or attempted to procure a licence.' (IDEN doesn't make this clear but I assume a wedding had not actually been arranged.)
Looking at the results of the fraud, I think it's too vague for the law to become involved. Windibank still has his hands on Miss Sutherland's money, but technically she's still in control of it - she's free to do whatever she wants with it.
So although he's done something cruel and manipulative, I think Windibank is right - neither the civil nor the criminal courts can touch him. Holmes in CHAS on the other hand - I don't think he's got a leg to stand on ^___^ Sue him for everything he's got, Agatha! ^_^ (I have a sudden urge to do an ACD/G&S crossover - Trial By Jury, starring Mr. Sherlock Holmes and his former betrothed Agatha ^^)
no subject
Date: 2017-03-11 10:29 pm (UTC)However, when it comes to the practical elements of prosecuting Mr Windibank, I see the sticking-place. Presuming that "Hosmer Angel" and Mrs Windibank between them made all the arrangements for the church and hotel -- or rather, failed to make them -- then there are no independent witnesses that there ever was an engagement. Maybe there's something in the letters? But even with the letters, that's a very circumstantial case that Mr Holmes has in his hands.
ARGH. Mostly, I just want to see Mr Windibank Get What's Coming To Him, and Miss Sutherland living among people whose worst faults are sometimes being inconsiderately loud.
:: (I have a sudden urge to do an ACD/G&S crossover - Trial By Jury, starring Mr. Sherlock Holmes and his former betrothed Agatha ^^) ::
Oh, yes, please! I'm not familiar with Trial By Jury in particular, but it'd be a lovely excuse to get up to speed. :-D
no subject
Date: 2017-03-12 05:03 pm (UTC)Perhaps the law wouldn't differentiate between the two situations. I don't know the definite answer.
But I view it this way: say instead of Miss Sutherland having a mother and a stepfather, she had a biological brother. She's living with her brother - the brother pulls the same stunt as Windibank to hang onto her personal money. After some years of waiting for her non-existent suitor to return, Miss Sutherland finds out the truth. She wants damages for all the years she's wasted. My instinct is the courts would be sympathetic but they would say you simply can't sue your own brother for breach of promise - a marriage between the two of you would have been incestuous. It doesn't matter that you had no idea he was your brother and he deliberately fooled you.
I believe the situation between Miss Sutherland and Windibank would fall into the same category. All marriages between a stepfather and stepdaughter were forbidden. By marrying Miss Sutherland’s mother, Windibank was now considered to be too closely related to Miss Sutherland to ever marry her - even if he became a widower. In the eyes of the Church and of the law, it would be a quasi-incestuous marriage - they would be treated as though they really were father and daughter.
But I honestly don’t know. Perhaps IDEN’s bizarre circumstances wouldn’t have had a clear-cut ruling under the law - perhaps a clever barrister could have argued it either way. Certainly there’s the argument that if a married man could be sued because if he had been single he could have married the woman, then a stepfather could be sued because if he hadn’t been married, he wouldn’t have been the plaintiff’s stepfather in the first place. If you see what I mean ^^
And as you say, it may have all been moot anyway, if Miss Sutherland couldn’t prove there was an engagement.
If you want to have a look at Trial By Jury (it’s only just over half an hour long), there’s a lovely version here on YouTube (https://youtu.be/UuPwTdRLLLY). From 1977, performed by students of the Opera Department at The University of Texas at Austin.
(Sorry about the edit - thought I'd mucked up the link ^^")