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sherlock60This week, we’re having a look at The Problem of Thor Bridge. As always, I’ve typed up a few thoughts to get the discussion started.
Among these unfinished tales is that of Mr. James Phillimore… No less remarkable is that of the cutter Alicia… A third case worthy of note is that of Isadora Persano, the well-known journalist and duellist... Any thoughts on any of these cases?
…the solitary plane tree which graces the yard behind our house. This is rather interesting. I think it’s the only time a garden is mentioned for 221 Baker Street.
“…the two hard-boiled eggs with which our new cook has favoured us.” Apart from Billy, Watson is pretty vague about what servants there are at Baker Street. Is this “new” as in “replacement”, or as in “very first”? Has Mrs. Hudson been doing all the cooking up to now?
“…a very attractive governess superintended the education of two young children.” “[My wife] adored me in those English woods as she had adored me twenty years ago on the banks of the Amazon.” “Young children” suggests to me around 10 or less—it implies they were conceived relatively late on in the marriage, once the “romance” was fading. Was this an attempt by both spouses to save their marriage? And what becomes of the children after their mother’s death? They seem to be treated in the story purely as a plot point—to have a governess in the house, there have to be children for her to teach.
“My love faded. If hers had faded also it might have been easier.” I always find it irritating that when one partner falls out of love, the other partner is considered a nuisance for not conveniently doing the same. Gibson was annoyed with his wife for being loyal and loving, as they had both vowed to be when they got married. What would have happened if Mrs. Gibson had started hating him—would she have been expected to move away, leaving the children behind?
“Some of you rich men have to be taught that all the world cannot be bribed into condoning your offences." I love the way Holmes is standing up for vulnerable women here. I wonder which rich men in particular he’s thinking of.
“…the workings of this unhappy woman's mind were deep and subtle…” Mrs. Gibson is a complex and well-drawn figure for someone who is dead before the story begins. I have to say she has my complete sympathy for her initial anger and resentment towards Miss Dunbar. I think Miss Dunbar is right when she says it wouldn’t have been a happy marriage whether she was there or not, but she’s also right when she says she should have left. Despite the fact they’re not having sex, I would call the relationship between Gibson and Miss Dunbar an affair. Mrs. Gibson would be entirely justified to be angry and frustrated about being made a fool of in her own home. Naturally she wasn’t right to put the blame for the situation on Miss Dunbar though—it was her husband’s fault. And attempting to frame Miss Dunbar for murder was a monstrous thing to do. (But the fact she felt suicide was her only answer does make me feel immense pity for me. The thought of the moment when she held the gun to her head…)
Mrs. Gibson’s dual personality puzzles me a little. She is talked about as being, literally, madly in love and insane with jealousy, and having a passionate character. Yet she also coolly works out and executes a plan to pass her suicide off as a murder.
“Should they in the future join their forces, as seems not unlikely…” What would be the future outlook of a marriage between Miss Dunbar and Gibson? Has Gibson learnt his lesson on how to treat women? Will the couple have enough in common that they will remain happy once Miss Dunbar’s physical charms start to fade, as the first Mrs. Gibson’s did? Also, Gibson says that he treated his late wife badly simply to try and lose her love. (“If I have been harsh to her, even brutal as some have said, it has been because I knew that if I could kill her love, or if it turned to hate, it would be easier for both of us.”). But according to his estate manager, he treated everybody badly—it seems to be in his nature. (“A hard man, Mr. Holmes, hard to all about him.”) Will Miss Dunbar eventually have cause to regret her marriage?
Next Sunday, 21st December, we’ll be having a look at The Creeping Man. Hope you can join us then.
Among these unfinished tales is that of Mr. James Phillimore… No less remarkable is that of the cutter Alicia… A third case worthy of note is that of Isadora Persano, the well-known journalist and duellist... Any thoughts on any of these cases?
…the solitary plane tree which graces the yard behind our house. This is rather interesting. I think it’s the only time a garden is mentioned for 221 Baker Street.
“…the two hard-boiled eggs with which our new cook has favoured us.” Apart from Billy, Watson is pretty vague about what servants there are at Baker Street. Is this “new” as in “replacement”, or as in “very first”? Has Mrs. Hudson been doing all the cooking up to now?
“…a very attractive governess superintended the education of two young children.” “[My wife] adored me in those English woods as she had adored me twenty years ago on the banks of the Amazon.” “Young children” suggests to me around 10 or less—it implies they were conceived relatively late on in the marriage, once the “romance” was fading. Was this an attempt by both spouses to save their marriage? And what becomes of the children after their mother’s death? They seem to be treated in the story purely as a plot point—to have a governess in the house, there have to be children for her to teach.
“My love faded. If hers had faded also it might have been easier.” I always find it irritating that when one partner falls out of love, the other partner is considered a nuisance for not conveniently doing the same. Gibson was annoyed with his wife for being loyal and loving, as they had both vowed to be when they got married. What would have happened if Mrs. Gibson had started hating him—would she have been expected to move away, leaving the children behind?
“Some of you rich men have to be taught that all the world cannot be bribed into condoning your offences." I love the way Holmes is standing up for vulnerable women here. I wonder which rich men in particular he’s thinking of.
“…the workings of this unhappy woman's mind were deep and subtle…” Mrs. Gibson is a complex and well-drawn figure for someone who is dead before the story begins. I have to say she has my complete sympathy for her initial anger and resentment towards Miss Dunbar. I think Miss Dunbar is right when she says it wouldn’t have been a happy marriage whether she was there or not, but she’s also right when she says she should have left. Despite the fact they’re not having sex, I would call the relationship between Gibson and Miss Dunbar an affair. Mrs. Gibson would be entirely justified to be angry and frustrated about being made a fool of in her own home. Naturally she wasn’t right to put the blame for the situation on Miss Dunbar though—it was her husband’s fault. And attempting to frame Miss Dunbar for murder was a monstrous thing to do. (But the fact she felt suicide was her only answer does make me feel immense pity for me. The thought of the moment when she held the gun to her head…)
Mrs. Gibson’s dual personality puzzles me a little. She is talked about as being, literally, madly in love and insane with jealousy, and having a passionate character. Yet she also coolly works out and executes a plan to pass her suicide off as a murder.
“Should they in the future join their forces, as seems not unlikely…” What would be the future outlook of a marriage between Miss Dunbar and Gibson? Has Gibson learnt his lesson on how to treat women? Will the couple have enough in common that they will remain happy once Miss Dunbar’s physical charms start to fade, as the first Mrs. Gibson’s did? Also, Gibson says that he treated his late wife badly simply to try and lose her love. (“If I have been harsh to her, even brutal as some have said, it has been because I knew that if I could kill her love, or if it turned to hate, it would be easier for both of us.”). But according to his estate manager, he treated everybody badly—it seems to be in his nature. (“A hard man, Mr. Holmes, hard to all about him.”) Will Miss Dunbar eventually have cause to regret her marriage?
Next Sunday, 21st December, we’ll be having a look at The Creeping Man. Hope you can join us then.
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no subject
Date: 2014-12-14 04:40 pm (UTC)I don't think the children would like their new stepmom. Could there be one or two older children, not mentioned, since Gibson doesn't seem to think much of his kids?
Holmes does seem to think Miss Dunbar will marry Gibson. (edit: I think they'll have to get married. She'll never get a respectable job, and has dependents.) I can't resist quoting Will Cuppy on Henry VIII. He married her because she was different. But she was too different. I don't think she will be quite as miserable as her predecessor, because she doesn't seem to love Gibson as Maria does, but I don't think she'll be happy, either.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-14 10:19 pm (UTC)That's a very good point about Miss Dunbar never getting another job. Governesses are ten a penny - would anyone want one who'd been involved in a scandal? And another good point that Miss Dunbar isn't passionately in love with Gibson. Which is probably a good thing. Hopefully there will be mutual respect in the marriage though.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-14 07:09 pm (UTC)And I absolutely adore how Holmes is defending vulnerable women (not only, but particularly) in this story. It stood out the very first time I read it, and it always makes me stop reading for a while and just smile. He might not understand the working of woman's mind, but nevertheless he will defend them. ^^
But, hehehe, let's talk about those three mentioned unsolved cases. Or, I shall better say, not solved by Holmes, for if you've read The Problem of the Sore Bridge (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1owWGN0KNAAFBLzK296zZSEdh0wkvZR18jBXSVyMrJ3E/edit) by Philip Jose Farmer, you know how it really was. (Our favourite cricket playing amateur thief and his trustworthy Bunny were very busy dealing with these incidents. ^w^)
Hmm, but I shall better warn beforehand that it is leaning heavily towards H.G. Wells' sci-fi undertones. Truly, it's fabulous.
no subject
Date: 2014-12-14 10:25 pm (UTC)I shall have a look at that story and get back to you ^_^
Edit: I've read the story now ^^ Delightfully silly - I think the title sums up the whole tone ^_^ It's so clever how the author has managed to work in all three of the cases - and I admire the way he plays the whole thing straight ^^
no subject
Date: 2014-12-15 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-12-15 06:16 pm (UTC)