Canon Discussion: The Sign of Four, Chaps. 7 - 12

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

This week we’re having a look at the second half of The Sign of Four. I’ve typed up a few thoughts to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!


Chap. 7

She was clearly no mere paid dependant but an honoured friend. In last week’s discussion, laurose8 suggested that Miss Morstan “would have been in another governess or companion post” before taking up the governess position at Mrs. Forrester’s. Which got me thinking: there’s no sign of Mr. Forrester or of any children, and Mary has been there 6 years. Could her position have changed from being governess, to being Mrs. Forrester’s companion? All the children are away at school or university, and Mr. Forrester has died perhaps?


Chap. 8

"You remember the Baker Street division of the detective police force whom I employed in the Jefferson Hope case?" Seven years later Wiggins is still apparently in charge of the Irregulars. Not impossible obviously, but the implication seems to be that he’s still a little boy. Any thoughts?


Chap. 9

"Women are never to be entirely trusted — not the best of them." What do you think about Holmes’ statement here? In other stories, he shows sympathy for women, he’s kind to them, and he occasionally admires them. I don’t believe he dislikes women. If he genuinely doesn’t trust them, is there a particular reason for him to hold this opinion, do you think?

"I don't think that you have any cause to be uneasy, Mrs. Hudson," I answered. "I have seen him like this before. This is perhaps a curious exchange—after all, Watson and Mrs. Hudson have known Holmes for exactly the same period of time. Surely Mrs. Hudson too should have seen Holmes in this state before?

...five pounds will be paid to anyone who can give information to Mrs. Smith, at Smith's Wharf, or at 22lB, Baker Street, as to the whereabouts of the said Mordecai Smith and the launch Aurora. It might be read by the fugitives without their seeing in it more than the natural anxiety of a wife for her missing husband. But in an earlier paper, it was reported that Holmes and Watson had found Bartholomew Sholto’s body. And Holmes is becoming famous—his address might be famous too. So, if Small read the earlier article and this advert asking for information, he’d probably know that Holmes was onto him, and try and escape in a different way.

He was an aged man, clad in seafaring garb, with an old pea-jacket buttoned up to his throat. *sighs heavily* When Holmes said goodbye to Watson, he was wearing this outfit. Why doesn’t Watson recognise him when he returns?


Chap. 12

'What have three black fellows to do with our agreement?' 'Black or blue,' said I, 'they are in with me, and we all go together.' "He was staunch and true, was little Tonga. No man ever had a more faithful mate.” What do you think of the way the non-white characters are treated in the story? Of course, there’s a fair bit of Victorian racism going on.

“I think she is one of the most charming young ladies I ever met and might have been most useful in such work as we have been doing.” An intriguing remark. If Watson and Miss Morstan hadn’t fallen in love and decided to get married, might these have turned into the adventures of Holmes, Watson and Morstan?

“...I get a wife out of it…” Any thoughts on what Watson’s wedding was like?


Next week, 8th February, we’ll be moving onto the short stories—beginning with A Scandal in Bohemia. Hope you can join us for that.

Comments

[debriswoman]

Regarding Watson not recognising Holmes...I rather like the idea that Watson might be humouring his friend...at times.
A bit different to the Empty House...when Watson can be forgiven for not recognising a friend he thought to be dead.

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

I like that - it's rather endearing, the idea that Watson did know it was Holmes, but he realised his friend was hoping to trick him and he just went along with it ^^

And, you're right - Watson simply wouldn't have entertained the possibility of the bookseller being Holmes: Holmes was dead - therefore it couldn't be Holmes.

[vaysh]

"Women are never to be entirely trusted — not the best of them." What do you think about Holmes’ statement here?
I think Holmes (and his creator ACD) here speaks very much like a man raised and fully believing in the separate sphere gender ideology of the 19th century. Within that framework women have different things to consider, foremost domestic concerns, the well-being of their family, their children, and/or getting married. Within that framework, too, women are liable to follow emotions rather than logic – this is one of the fundaments of the separate sphere ideology. I think it makes a lot of sense for Holmes to warn against trusting women within that context. It does not mean, I think, that he dislikes women, only that he does not trust women to be willing or capable to apply the logic he demands from people he trusts. The parts of the Holmes stories where he does indeed trust women, these are the interesting ones to me. It seems to me Holmes here is willing to be proven wrong. :)

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

Yes, I suppose that works for me - Holmes isn't saying that women are immoral, and so shouldn't be trusted. He's just saying they're creatures of emotion and not logic. Which is still pretty annoying but not quite so offensive ^_^

I suppose even Holmes can't escape his upbringing and environment. (I think of him as having no sisters, and of course being schooled in an all-male environment.) And I like the idea that he remains to some extent open-minded.

[tripleransom.livejournal.com]

I have always thought that SIGN has the saddest ending in Canon. Sadder even than CARD (which is pretty depressing) but this one breaks my heart every time.

“For me,” said Sherlock Holmes, “there still remains the cocaine-bottle.” And he stretched his long white hand up for it.

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

It is an awfully downbeat ending after all the excitement of the story. I don't know if this was his intention, but there is a definite full stop feel to SIGN, as though ACD had decided he wasn't going to write about Holmes again. Watson's going off to get married, and he says he probably won't be able to work with Holmes any more. Just imagine if STUD and SIGN were all we had, and that was our final image of Holmes...

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

I find the racism as a whole distasteful, of course. But it is worth noting that Holmes and Watson don't fire at Tonga until he lifts his blowgun.

In an earlier discussion, I think someone suggested Mary might take more of a hand in Holmes' cases than she wanted her husband to record. So perhaps sometimes it was Holmes, Watsson and Marston.

As for the wedding, by tradition the groom is in a daze on the day, so it's no use asking Watson.

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think to a certain extent Tonga and Small's Sikh associates are treated fairly as characters. It's just that banging on about Tonga's appearance that makes me uncomfortable. And referring to him as a "savage". I don't doubt Tonga is an aggressive, dangerous man, but I think ACD treats him in a different way than if he were a white aggressive, dangerous man.

I do like to think that Mary was involved in the cases, and that either she or her husband made the decision to leave her out of the stories - to give her a bit of privacy.

And that's such a lovely image - Watson can't write about his wedding day because he has absolutely no memory of it ^__^

[kestrel337.livejournal.com]

I think the wedding was probably small and simple. Neither of them have family, though there are a couple of friends who might attend. I like to think there were a few flowers; country blooms, bright and pretty, and maybe a nice weather day after a bit of freshening rain the night before.

Or maybe it was bucketing down with rain, but neither of them noticed. It's been long and long since I read the ACD stories, but I seem to remember Holmes having some interest in flowers, so even if it rained I'd like to think they had pretty flowers.

I can get behind an ordinary day-dress, a regular everyday sort of suit, and a small private ceremony, as long as they had flowers.

[scfrankles.livejournal.com]

That sounds absolutely lovely ^^ I can really picture it. Maybe Holmes sorted out the flowers for Mary and Watson, as his present to them..?