Canon Discussion: The Copper Beeches
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sherlock60This week we’re having a look at The Copper Beeches. I’ve typed up a few thoughts to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!
Sherlock Holmes had been silent all the morning, dipping continuously into the advertisement columns of a succession of papers until at last, having apparently given up his search, he had emerged in no very sweet temper to lecture me upon my literary shortcomings. Intriguing. What is he searching for..?
“The small matter in which I endeavoured to help the King of Bohemia, the singular experience of Miss Mary Sutherland, the problem connected with the man with the twisted lip, and the incident of the noble bachelor…” “You remember that the affair of the blue carbuncle…” This is rather interesting. These stories weren’t published until after Holmes was presumed dead—so it appears Watson has written them and shown them to Holmes but not actually tried to sell them yet.
And Watson must be married at this point (he was definitely married for SCAN, IDEN, TWIS and BLUE) but there’s no mention of Mrs. Watson and, in fact, Watson gives the distinct impression here he’s living at Baker Street. Any ideas?
“...giving advice to young ladies from boarding-schools…” Any thoughts on what advice was asked for?
"I confess that it is not the situation which I should like to see a sister of mine apply for." Interesting way of putting it. I’m assuming Holmes doesn’t have a sister, and never did. But he and his brother were born seven years apart at a time of high infant mortality. Could there have been another child in between?
“It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling and beautiful countryside." “...founded upon my experience…” Any thoughts?
“And yet she had some secret sorrow, this woman.” But Mrs. Rucastle seems to take a calm, active part in the plot—think of how she reacts just after Miss Hunter has used a piece of mirror to see what’s going on behind her in the road. Why should she be bursting into tears all the time? It doesn’t seem to fit. Is it the stress of the situation?
“And if you ever put your foot over that threshold again”—here in an instant the smile hardened into a grin of rage, and he glared down at me with the face of a demon—“I'll throw you to the mastiff.” Why doesn’t Rucastle simply sack Miss Hunter? He doesn’t need her as a decoy any more.
“As to who this prisoner is, I have no doubt that it is the daughter, Miss Alice Rucastle…” It would be bad enough if Rucastle were being the wicked stepfather here, but Alice is his own daughter. Or is she..? Could she be the result of an affair that the previous Mrs. Rucastle had, and that’s why Rucastle treats her with such contempt? From the little we know of Alice she certainly doesn’t seem to be much like her horrible little half-brother. She doesn’t appear to have inherited her putative father’s cruelty.
"But how?" "Through the skylight. We shall soon see how he managed it." Why on earth does Holmes jump to the conclusion that Rucastle has abducted Alice through the skylight? All he would have had to have done is unlock the door.
...we all rushed down the stairs together. I love that in this story Miss Hunter is pretty much an equal partner in the adventure. She isn’t just Holmes’ client. And she’s so brave, capable, observant and intelligent. I know she has that panic when she’s sees Alice Rucastle moving about in the locked room, but to me that indicates she’s human rather than weak. It is an unsettling moment.
“As well as I could learn, Miss Alice had rights of her own by will…” Presumably from her mother or a member of her mother’s family, but maybe from her natural father..?
"But Mr. Fowler being a persevering man, as a good seaman should be..” How does Holmes know Fowler is a seaman? The only clue I can see is that Miss Hunter refers to him as a bearded man. Hardly conclusive.
As to Miss Violet Hunter, my friend Holmes, rather to my disappointment, manifested no further interest in her when once she had ceased to be the centre of one of his problems… The first time I read this story, Watson’s “disappointment” rather surprised me. From what I can see, Holmes shows absolutely no romantic interest in Miss Hunter at all. (And she shows no romantic interest in him.) But perhaps that isn’t what Watson means. Perhaps he’s disappointed Holmes doesn’t continue his friendship with Miss Hunter—maybe he hoped Holmes might become a little more sociable.
Next Sunday, 3rd May, we’ll be having a look at Silver Blaze. Hope you can join us then.
Sherlock Holmes had been silent all the morning, dipping continuously into the advertisement columns of a succession of papers until at last, having apparently given up his search, he had emerged in no very sweet temper to lecture me upon my literary shortcomings. Intriguing. What is he searching for..?
“The small matter in which I endeavoured to help the King of Bohemia, the singular experience of Miss Mary Sutherland, the problem connected with the man with the twisted lip, and the incident of the noble bachelor…” “You remember that the affair of the blue carbuncle…” This is rather interesting. These stories weren’t published until after Holmes was presumed dead—so it appears Watson has written them and shown them to Holmes but not actually tried to sell them yet.
And Watson must be married at this point (he was definitely married for SCAN, IDEN, TWIS and BLUE) but there’s no mention of Mrs. Watson and, in fact, Watson gives the distinct impression here he’s living at Baker Street. Any ideas?
“...giving advice to young ladies from boarding-schools…” Any thoughts on what advice was asked for?
"I confess that it is not the situation which I should like to see a sister of mine apply for." Interesting way of putting it. I’m assuming Holmes doesn’t have a sister, and never did. But he and his brother were born seven years apart at a time of high infant mortality. Could there have been another child in between?
“It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling and beautiful countryside." “...founded upon my experience…” Any thoughts?
“And yet she had some secret sorrow, this woman.” But Mrs. Rucastle seems to take a calm, active part in the plot—think of how she reacts just after Miss Hunter has used a piece of mirror to see what’s going on behind her in the road. Why should she be bursting into tears all the time? It doesn’t seem to fit. Is it the stress of the situation?
“And if you ever put your foot over that threshold again”—here in an instant the smile hardened into a grin of rage, and he glared down at me with the face of a demon—“I'll throw you to the mastiff.” Why doesn’t Rucastle simply sack Miss Hunter? He doesn’t need her as a decoy any more.
“As to who this prisoner is, I have no doubt that it is the daughter, Miss Alice Rucastle…” It would be bad enough if Rucastle were being the wicked stepfather here, but Alice is his own daughter. Or is she..? Could she be the result of an affair that the previous Mrs. Rucastle had, and that’s why Rucastle treats her with such contempt? From the little we know of Alice she certainly doesn’t seem to be much like her horrible little half-brother. She doesn’t appear to have inherited her putative father’s cruelty.
"But how?" "Through the skylight. We shall soon see how he managed it." Why on earth does Holmes jump to the conclusion that Rucastle has abducted Alice through the skylight? All he would have had to have done is unlock the door.
...we all rushed down the stairs together. I love that in this story Miss Hunter is pretty much an equal partner in the adventure. She isn’t just Holmes’ client. And she’s so brave, capable, observant and intelligent. I know she has that panic when she’s sees Alice Rucastle moving about in the locked room, but to me that indicates she’s human rather than weak. It is an unsettling moment.
“As well as I could learn, Miss Alice had rights of her own by will…” Presumably from her mother or a member of her mother’s family, but maybe from her natural father..?
"But Mr. Fowler being a persevering man, as a good seaman should be..” How does Holmes know Fowler is a seaman? The only clue I can see is that Miss Hunter refers to him as a bearded man. Hardly conclusive.
As to Miss Violet Hunter, my friend Holmes, rather to my disappointment, manifested no further interest in her when once she had ceased to be the centre of one of his problems… The first time I read this story, Watson’s “disappointment” rather surprised me. From what I can see, Holmes shows absolutely no romantic interest in Miss Hunter at all. (And she shows no romantic interest in him.) But perhaps that isn’t what Watson means. Perhaps he’s disappointed Holmes doesn’t continue his friendship with Miss Hunter—maybe he hoped Holmes might become a little more sociable.
Next Sunday, 3rd May, we’ll be having a look at Silver Blaze. Hope you can join us then.
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Date: 2015-04-26 09:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-26 03:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-26 05:44 pm (UTC)Good point about Mrs Watson. Perhaps she spent a lot of time out of London. Perhaps, even, some lung trouble which in the end proved fatal..?
Though Holmes' remark is purely hypothetical, it does seem very possible Mycroft and Sherlock had a sister or sisters. After all, Mycroft doesn't appear until he's involved in a case; and if this sister was married to a member of the squirearchy, her communication with Holmes would be a Christmas card; which Holmes would promptly use as a boookmark. Still, Holmes' bafflement about women could be diagnosed as sisterlessness.
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Date: 2015-04-26 07:40 pm (UTC)Again, an excellent theory. We know Mrs. Watson eventually dies young. It would make sense that she was away being treated - maybe abroad. But Watson had to stay in London to work and earn money for them. Holmes offers him his old room back, so he isn't alone. And Watson wouldn't want to discuss something so private in a story intended for public consumption.
It's true that Holmes doesn't talk about his family, so who knows what relations he has. But I always think that when Holmes does bring Mycroft up, it's strongly implied that's his only sibling. He's talking about the art of deduction being partly hereditary - I think as a scientist, he would have mentioned all his siblings if he had more, not just picked the one who happened to share his skill. And the fact he doesn't understand women strongly suggests to me a man who has grown up without sisters.
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Date: 2015-04-27 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-27 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-27 09:07 pm (UTC)Can I just add to my colleague's message: would it be possible to credit the discussion post to the comm, sherlock60, rather than to me as an individual, please?
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Date: 2015-04-27 11:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-04-27 10:11 pm (UTC)Copper Beeches is my favourite case from Holmesian short stories. Ever since I've read the Canon for the first time, this story somehow attracted me the most. And the delicious Granada adaptation, oh my … ^^
I truly love this case, despite the fact, that it certainly isn’t one of the brilliant detective stories with the bulletproof logic behind. Seriously, how did Holmes became aware of the fact, that Mr. Fowler is a seaman? Just how? Due to his grand entrance via ladder and window? Logic have a slight limp in this. Or Holmes made a background research and simply omit to inform Watson.
It has a certain gothic novel feeling, or at least for me. A heroine, brave and pretty, in a creepy environment, trying to uncover the mystery. Well, if you think about it, it’s not actually a Holmes’ adventure. He or Watson didn’t play any important role at all, their personas were just framing the story which unwound on its own. I think that might be because ACD was inspired by a real case.
Anyway, about Holmes’ and his potential sister. I quite like the Enola Holmes series, though I’ve read only the first two books. (I’d read the rest, had I only get my hands upon them.) But, can you imagine a woman of Holmes’ bloodline? In Victorian society? I’m pretty sure she would be something extraordinary, perhaps an actress, or, even better, a magician’s assistant, and therefore ignored by the rest of the family. (With the exception of Sherlock, her dear twin-brother). It would be no wonder, that Holmes doesn’t understand women at all. Plus, he is secretive enough about his family, so he might never mention her, until she appears at his doorstep, trying to hide from a gang of international artefact smugglers, who have been using her employer … But I digress. (Yep, that’s a pretty wild plotbunny hopping my way. It needs to be shot before it gets too rabid. ^^)
I’ve never, ever, noticed that Watson mentions all those cases during which he is supposed to be already married! What the … ? Well, we all know that our dear Doctor likes to baffle his readers with mistreatments of unimportant details, like dates, or snake species, or his own name, but this is a little bit far-fetched even for him. Where was Mary? Visiting her non-existent relatives? I really like the theory that she was on vacation due to her health. But again, this suspicious lack of her just plays into the hands of … hardcore slashers [for the lack of better words]. You know what I mean, there are many fanfics out there playing with this idea.
no subject
Date: 2015-04-28 09:54 pm (UTC)I'm very fond of this story too. Miss Hunter is such a wonderful character and I love the relationship between her and Holmes and Watson. As I've said in my post, she seems to be more than just a client - she's almost an equal partner in the adventure.
I think you've hit the nail on the head describing it as like a gothic novel. That moment when Miss Hunter suddenly sees the shadow of someone moving behind the locked door... It's so chilling. And you're quite right that the case does resolve itself without Holmes' help - though he perhaps ensures Miss Hunter remains safe.
"A magician's assistant..." It's interesting you should suggest that. I saw a programme once which explained how some tricks were done. And it struck me that magicians and their "assistants" were using the audience's unwitting sexism against them as part of the trick. The girl in the brief, sparkly outfit going into the box would be the one actually performing the trick - her outfit wasn't for decoration; it would ensure she could easily move and manipulate her body. The male "magician" waving his hands about, wouldn't actually be doing anything - he'd just be the showman. It wouldn't occur to us the girl was playing an active part in the trick - she was just something pretty to look at. And so the audience would be completely fooled.
That just seems something so apt for an intelligent and unconventional Victorian woman - being the brains and the one in charge, but being written off as just a pretty face. Must admit, I'm quite resistant to there being more Holmes siblings than Sherlock and Mycroft, but it would be interesting to see Holmes interacting with a sister as intelligent as himself ^^
Thinking about the timeline in the canon always makes me want to cry ^_^ In COPP, ACD has plainly decided to have Watson as a bachelor - and that would have been all right, if he hadn't had Holmes mention all the previous cases in which Watson was married ^^" Before I joined Sherlock60 I either didn't notice or wasn't too bothered by the problems in the timeline (GLOR was the only one that really wound me up). ACD is such a good storyteller that you get caught up in the adventure and don't really question the details ^^ But now that I'm reading the stories more closely, I can truly understand why there are all these theories that Watson was married several times, or that he was simply making wives up because he and Holmes were in love. ACD just completely forgets about poor Mary most of the time ^_^