Canon Discussion: The Three Garridebs
Feb. 7th, 2016 08:01 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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sherlock60This week we’re having a look at The Three Garridebs. I’ve typed up a few thoughts and questions to get the discussion going—please leave your own ideas in the comments!
...Holmes refused a knighthood for services which may perhaps some day be described. Any thoughts?
...the date, which was the latter end of June, 1902… In this story we get an intense moment of affection between Holmes and Watson. And yet, in ILLU, which takes place three months later in September 1902, Watson is abruptly living away from Baker Street after living there with Holmes for the previous eight years. Yes, ACD was making it up as he went along, and he changed Watson’s circumstances depending on what the story required. But playing the Game, it’s rather suggestive. In ILLU, Holmes and Watson’s friendship seems perfectly intact—but they just aren’t sharing lodgings any more. And oddly, Watson is only living about a mile from Baker Street.
Any ideas? Some kind of declaration from one man that the other man found hard to deal with? A 60 from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
vaysh gives one suggestion. Could it be that Watson was already planning to move out before 3GAR happened? Was he indeed leaving to get married again, as Holmes appears to tell us in BLAN? The last time we discussed 3GAR, winryweiss suggested that perhaps the gunshot wound was worse than Watson let on in the story. And he had to move elsewhere because all the steps in Baker Street were too much for him.
"Have you ever heard the name of Garrideb?" Sherlock Peoria gives us an amusing look at the ‘etymology’ of the name.
"Mr. Holmes?" he asked, glancing from one to the other. "Ah, yes! Your pictures are not unlike you, sir, if I may say so.” Do Holmes and Watson look like each other? No, wait—bear with me. In the illustrations (and indeed in TV and film adaptations) Holmes and Watson look significantly different. But maybe this is just for ease of identification and to make an interesting image. In real life we do tend to favour people who look like us. I mean, couples in general tend to resemble siblings. (Though I’m not suggesting Holmes and Watson are necessarily a couple.)
From the descriptions we have of Holmes and the description of Watson we have from CHAS, they do seem to have different builds. But ‘John Garrideb’ can’t instantly pick out Holmes—he has to consider both men first. So are they facially similar? Are the illustrations of Holmes faithful but not Watson’s—because he looks too much like Holmes?
“Just ring him up, Watson." Holmes must have been keen to get a telephone. 3GAR begins in “the latter end of June, 1902” and according to Exploring 20th Century London: “London's first telephone exchange opened on 1 March 1902 near Blackfriars.”
“[Killer Evans] Escaped from penitentiary through political influence.” That’s rather an intriguing statement. Any thoughts?
It was worth a wound — it was worth many wounds — to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask… For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain. “For the one and only time”..? Is this possible? But perhaps the relevant words in those two sentences are “depth” and “great”. Watson must surely have been aware of Holmes’ affection towards him over the years, but they are both men who keep their cards close to their chest. However, in the reaction to the gunshot wound, Watson has clear proof for once that Holmes loves him.
“If you had killed Watson, you would not have got out of this room alive.” What exactly does Holmes mean by this? Does he perhaps not mean it literally—is it just a way of saying, “I bloody love that man, and I’m really quite upset that you attempted to murder him”? Or perhaps he meant that if had been immediately apparent Watson had been fatally shot, then Holmes would have shot and killed Evans, rather than attempt to incapacitate him?
What I love most about Holmes is his nobility, and his concern for those weaker than himself. Surely, even if Watson had bled to death in his arms, he wouldn’t then have gone and shot a stunned and helpless Evans. Would he?
We heard later that our poor old friend never got over the shock of his dissipated dreams. This does feel like an out of the blue ending for Nathan Garrideb. It must have been a huge disappointment, and Garrideb was eccentric and isolated—but going into a nursing home over it?
Next Sunday, 14th February, we’ll be having a look at The Illustrious Client. Hope you can join us then.
...Holmes refused a knighthood for services which may perhaps some day be described. Any thoughts?
...the date, which was the latter end of June, 1902… In this story we get an intense moment of affection between Holmes and Watson. And yet, in ILLU, which takes place three months later in September 1902, Watson is abruptly living away from Baker Street after living there with Holmes for the previous eight years. Yes, ACD was making it up as he went along, and he changed Watson’s circumstances depending on what the story required. But playing the Game, it’s rather suggestive. In ILLU, Holmes and Watson’s friendship seems perfectly intact—but they just aren’t sharing lodgings any more. And oddly, Watson is only living about a mile from Baker Street.
Any ideas? Some kind of declaration from one man that the other man found hard to deal with? A 60 from
vaysh gives one suggestion. Could it be that Watson was already planning to move out before 3GAR happened? Was he indeed leaving to get married again, as Holmes appears to tell us in BLAN? The last time we discussed 3GAR, winryweiss suggested that perhaps the gunshot wound was worse than Watson let on in the story. And he had to move elsewhere because all the steps in Baker Street were too much for him."Have you ever heard the name of Garrideb?" Sherlock Peoria gives us an amusing look at the ‘etymology’ of the name.
"Mr. Holmes?" he asked, glancing from one to the other. "Ah, yes! Your pictures are not unlike you, sir, if I may say so.” Do Holmes and Watson look like each other? No, wait—bear with me. In the illustrations (and indeed in TV and film adaptations) Holmes and Watson look significantly different. But maybe this is just for ease of identification and to make an interesting image. In real life we do tend to favour people who look like us. I mean, couples in general tend to resemble siblings. (Though I’m not suggesting Holmes and Watson are necessarily a couple.)
From the descriptions we have of Holmes and the description of Watson we have from CHAS, they do seem to have different builds. But ‘John Garrideb’ can’t instantly pick out Holmes—he has to consider both men first. So are they facially similar? Are the illustrations of Holmes faithful but not Watson’s—because he looks too much like Holmes?
“Just ring him up, Watson." Holmes must have been keen to get a telephone. 3GAR begins in “the latter end of June, 1902” and according to Exploring 20th Century London: “London's first telephone exchange opened on 1 March 1902 near Blackfriars.”
“[Killer Evans] Escaped from penitentiary through political influence.” That’s rather an intriguing statement. Any thoughts?
It was worth a wound — it was worth many wounds — to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask… For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain. “For the one and only time”..? Is this possible? But perhaps the relevant words in those two sentences are “depth” and “great”. Watson must surely have been aware of Holmes’ affection towards him over the years, but they are both men who keep their cards close to their chest. However, in the reaction to the gunshot wound, Watson has clear proof for once that Holmes loves him.
“If you had killed Watson, you would not have got out of this room alive.” What exactly does Holmes mean by this? Does he perhaps not mean it literally—is it just a way of saying, “I bloody love that man, and I’m really quite upset that you attempted to murder him”? Or perhaps he meant that if had been immediately apparent Watson had been fatally shot, then Holmes would have shot and killed Evans, rather than attempt to incapacitate him?
What I love most about Holmes is his nobility, and his concern for those weaker than himself. Surely, even if Watson had bled to death in his arms, he wouldn’t then have gone and shot a stunned and helpless Evans. Would he?
We heard later that our poor old friend never got over the shock of his dissipated dreams. This does feel like an out of the blue ending for Nathan Garrideb. It must have been a huge disappointment, and Garrideb was eccentric and isolated—but going into a nursing home over it?
Next Sunday, 14th February, we’ll be having a look at The Illustrious Client. Hope you can join us then.
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Date: 2016-02-08 07:47 am (UTC)Frankly, Evans getting sprung from jail by knowing the right politicians is the sort of thing that's still going on today in Chicago - if he did a favor to a corrupt cop or two they'd look the other way while he lined up an escape plan.
If we're to take ACD's goofy-ass dates as gospel, the idea that Watson moved out to live in other rooms within months of this case could have been triggered by that attack. Perhaps things got awkward between them after such a naked revelation, and one or the other party couldn't handle the change. Or they may have had a fight over Holmes ordering Watson not to come with him on the next case and Watson telling Holmes where he could stick his sudden protectiveness.
(In the BBC Radio adaptation of 3GAR Watson tells Holmes he's getting remarried, during the scene where Watson is bandaging his own bullet wound; it's their explanation of the move to Queen Anne St. While it does fit in with the arc of the stories done at that time, it also feels like a frantic bout of backpedaling heteronormativity to counteract Holmes' outburst - the way a "Starsky & Hutch" episode could have the two men very emotionally intimate with each other and then end with them dating two forgettable and interchangeable young women to reassure the viewers that They're Not That Way.)
As for Holmes' threat to Evans? I really, truly believe that something bad happening to Watson is Holmes' Berserk Button - the one thing that could make him commit murder in the hot blood of revenge. He'd turn himself in to face prison or the rope afterward, but with no remorse.
Nathan's own fate is far unhappier. But perhaps it wasn't the case itself but an ongoing inability to function in the outside world that sent him to a nursing home, or a gradual bout of dementia exacerbated by the shock of throwing him into a stressful few days out of his routine.
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Date: 2016-02-08 05:29 pm (UTC)I even did one really far-out AU where Holmes reacts with reserve when Watson's hit… I’ve just read “Fixed It For You” ^^ It’s rather believable actually, isn’t it? Holmes keeping his cool. I suppose in the canon version, Watson is perfectly right - we are seeing part of Holmes that we don’t normally see.
Frankly, Evans getting sprung from jail by knowing the right politicians is the sort of thing that's still going on today in Chicago - if he did a favor to a corrupt cop or two they'd look the other way while he lined up an escape plan. It just surprises me a little with reference to Evans. He seems so unimportant - just a petty criminal, with a tendency to get in gun fights and kill people. But perhaps that’s just how he seems in England.
Perhaps things got awkward between them after such a naked revelation… Yes, that’s a very interesting thought - no big declaration afterwards; it was simply the fact it had happened that changed things. ...they may have had a fight over Holmes ordering Watson not to come with him on the next case and Watson telling Holmes where he could stick his sudden protectiveness. Again, that’s not something I’d considered before - Holmes suddenly becoming aware how vulnerable Watson was.
As for Holmes' threat to Evans? I really, truly believe that something bad happening to Watson is Holmes' Berserk Button - the one thing that could make him commit murder in the hot blood of revenge. He'd turn himself in to face prison or the rope afterward, but with no remorse. As I’ve said to rachelindeed, I perhaps put Holmes up on a pedestal - I’m happy for him to show his humanity in terms of demonstrating his love for Watson, but I flinch at him having the negative aspects of being human too. I want him to be a better person than the rest of us, which is unfair to him. I have to accept that Holmes might have lost control and murdered Evans if Watson had died. Thank God it didn’t come to that for everyone’s sake.